A sustainable future will mean a better world for all of us.

2

It's all too easy when thinking about sustainability to focus on what we must give up and

miss what we gain.

3

But the reality is that a sustainable world is full of gains.

4

It's a world in which we gain cleaner air and water, quieter cities, and in which

electricity becomes more affordable and more available to more people.

5

It's a world in which we gain a cleaner, healthier ocean that can produce more food for

us.

6

It's a world where our gains are shared more equally and the richest no longer use more

than their fair share.

7

It's a world where eating more plants brings greater health and less expensive foods.

8

It's a world in which poverty is ended, societies are equal, indigenous peoples' rights

are respected.

9

and everyone has access to healthcare and education.

10

It's a world full of nature to explore in distant lands and seas, or right on our

doorsteps within our cities.

11

Above all, it's a world in which both humankind and nature can truly thrive.

12

We should let our politicians and business leaders know that a sustainable future is not

just something we need, it's something above all that we want.

13

This is Sir David Attenborough, a British broadcaster, biologist, naturalist, historian,

and writer.

14

With one of the most recognizable voices in the world, he is best known for writing and

presenting the Life on Earth, Planet Earth, and Blue Planet nature documentaries,

15

comprehensive surveys of animal and plant life on Earth.

16

Interestingly, despite his work surveying the planet over decades,

17

He has long been skeptical about climate change, which makes his warnings now all the more

impactful.

18

If you're going to make a statement about the world, you better make sure that it isn't

just your own personal reaction.

19

And the only way you can do that is to see the work of scientists around the world who are

taking observation as to what's happening.

20

That's what's happening to temperature, what's happening to humidity, what's happening to

radioactivity.

21

of what happened ecologically.

22

Even the biggest, the most awful things that humanity has done, so-called civilizations

have done, pale to significance when you think of what could be around the corner unless

23

we put ourselves together.

24

Deserts in Africa have been spreading.

25

There could be whole areas of the world where people can no longer safely live.

26

The hottest temperatures yet recorded in Death Valley and yet we are such optimists.

27

Then we say we go to bed and I say, well, was exceptional.

28

Gosh, that was interesting, wasn't it?

29

That was the highest temperature.

30

Good Lord.

31

Oh, well, that's the end of that.

32

Not at all.

33

Wait, wait another few months.

34

Wait another year.

35

See you again.

36

to share a series of posts about the planet, noting that, quote, saving our planet is now

37

a communications challenge.

38

We know what to do, we just need the will.

39

When I began my career, I had no idea that I would be chronicling a story of change on

such a planetary scale.

40

One with such profound implications for all life on earth.

41

We've brought ourselves to the very brink of a disaster, the likes of which we have never

seen before.

42

I witnessed it with my own eyes.

43

But this is not my story, it's ours.

44

the story of everyone alive now and it doesn't stop here.

45

We're all living through these extraordinary times and the final chapter is ours to write.

46

It might feel like a moment of hopelessness but actually it can be our turning point.

47

We know what we need to do.

48

By making the right choices in the next 10 years we can begin to rewild the world and

create a rich

49

thriving sustainable future for ourselves on earth.

50

We can yet become the heroes of our own story.

51

We have it in our power.

52

Disaster or triumph, what happens next is up to us.

53

Our environment is the cornerstone of society.

54

Neglecting to address climate change will exacerbate every other social concern.

55

Health care,

56

the economy, food supply, energy costs, immigration, and geopolitical conflicts, to name a

few.

57

It's on each of us to communicate the challenge that we face.

58

In this series, I set out to explore our relationship with the environment, and if the

climate is indeed changing how I and others are personally experiencing it, why have we

59

not collectively acted?

60

After well over 600 hours of painstaking work,

61

I was excited to be able to pull together these incredible stories that everyone should

hear.

62

Whether you're curious about how energy impacts your life, skeptical of mainstream

narratives, or just looking for honest, unfiltered insights into the forces shaping our

63

world.

64

If you've listened to this entire series, your support means the world to me.

65

I genuinely believe this is some of the most important work that I've done to date, and

I'm extremely proud of what we've created.

66

Going Green is more than just a podcast.

67

It's a deep exploration of the crucial decisions, groundbreaking innovations, and powerful

influences that impact all of us.

68

I believe this is information that can make a difference and needs to be shared widely.

69

If it resonates with you, I hope you will spread the word.

70

Now, for one last time, I'm Demetrius Lynch, and this is Going Green.

71

The series was so all-encompassing and not at all what I expected.

72

They had actually looked at a map of Iraq and making plans in advance, know, a wish list

of what could happen.

73

So it was all, you know, quite premeditated.

74

I thought that was just such an aha moment where I was like, my gosh, that was a wild

insight.

75

I was not expecting to be like, dang, C-SPAN.

76

In this bonus episode, I invited my friend and fellow Gable Media podcaster, Nikita Reed,

the host of Tangible Remnants, to discuss the series with me.

77

But before we get into that, I have a few housekeeping items to get to.

78

First, if you haven't done so already, make sure you subscribe or stay subscribed to the

Spaces Podcast feed.

79

I'll be back with more insightful conversations in a couple weeks.

80

81

I will be attending the Entree Architect Community Annual Meeting in Nashville, Tennessee,

the business conference for entrepreneur architects.

82

I will be given a presentation on storytelling.

83

With my co-presenter, Randy Wilburn, we'll explore the fundamentals of effective

storytelling and its impact on your brand, practical tips for finding and sharing your

84

unique stories, and strategies for integrating storytelling into your daily practice.

85

I highly recommend this conference overall.

86

And for our presentation, you can expect an engaging and fun session filled with

actionable insights, real life examples, and a few surprises along the way.

87

Lastly, in mid November, I will be hosting GableMedia's first webinar event called All

Access, where GableMedia members will have unparalleled access to leading professionals to

88

ask your most pressing questions and gain groundbreaking insights that can propel your

career and projects forward.

89

I'll lead a panel discussion with renowned environmental and sustainability experts.

90

So if you're a fan of going green, you don't want to miss this conversation.

91

You can find a link to both of those events in the show notes.

92

Now for today's episode, again, I invited Nikita Reed, an award-winning architect and

preservationists, sustainability advocate, and public speaker to join me in this

93

conversation.

94

I invited Nikita because we view the built environment and art

95

approach to analyzing it in a similar way.

96

Through her podcast, Tangible Remnants, she explores the interconnectedness of

architecture, preservation, sustainability, race, and gender.

97

In her podcast, you'll learn about people, buildings, and policies that made a historical

impact and hear from women and BIPOC practitioners who are impacting the built environment

98

today.

99

In this bonus episode of Going Green, we discuss the motivations behind the series.

100

explore its historical context, the interconnectedness of events, and the role of

communication and manipulation in shaping public perception.

101

We dive into surprising discoveries that were made during my research, the messiness of

history, and the importance of corporate responsibility.

102

The discussion also touches on future perspectives on climate action, highlighting both

challenges and hope for a better future.

103

and we'll get into all of that after the break.

104

I am excited to be here, coming off of listening to the series.

105

And I have so many questions.

106

So I'm super excited to dig in with you.

107

My biggest question that I would love to start with is, what was the impetus for you to

create this series?

108

So it was a lot of things.

109

And it's hard to sort of frame it in a clean answer.

110

But looking at just kind of the landscape of things, you know, we were

111

coming off of, I'm in California for those that don't know, coming off of, you know, a ton

of wildfires here in California, seeing the flooding in Florida, fires in Canada with

112

smoke billowing out to New York and all of the various hurricanes and tornadoes and all

these things that were happening around the country and around the world.

113

And I was also listening to a lot of content that

114

was sort of down the vein of what I was thinking about doing with this podcast.

115

I have been thinking about it for a long time and trying to figure out which subject I

wanted to tackle.

116

Cause this was a little bit of a transition in my normal podcasts.

117

It's, uh, it's always been kind of about this idea of context matters and giving a lot of

perspectives and angles to a story.

118

but I had always done it sort of in one episode or like a 10 minute block.

119

And I was just dying to kind of stretch that out because I could, I had to cut so much

information in the past when I've done it in like these little 10 minute windows and I

120

couldn't dive in as much as I wanted to.

121

So I had been thinking about doing something like this, but I couldn't figure out the

subject matter.

122

But then all of this stuff in the environment started happening and looking at

123

society, there was a lot of overlap that started to bubble up these questions of, at least

in our industry, you know, a lot of us look at climate change and understand that it's an

124

actual problem.

125

But there's been this, you know, slow move to address it.

126

And I started thinking, like, why is that?

127

Why are we not just kind of gathered around as a

128

country as a world and just decided to tackle this thing and why has it been so slow to

happen?

129

And so I finally committed to studying the environment and getting into this subject.

130

And it kind of just took a life on its own as I got further and further into it.

131

So that's kind of the roundabout answer to what got me into this.

132

I love it.

133

I love it.

134

the series was so all-encompassing and not at all what I expected in terms of when I was

getting into it.

135

Because as a preservation architect, I am totally on board with the greenest building is

the one that's already built.

136

Building reuse is climate action.

137

We need to take action as designers.

138

We have a responsibility, all of the things.

139

And so hearing the way that you did such a fantastic job of navigating history and kind of

doing the deep dives into whether it's

140

Rachel Carson's Silent Spring up to how that impacted policy.

141

But then also the way that you were able to really weave together how industry and

research and policy and politics and communication all started blending together around

142

the messaging was just amazing.

143

And even listening to the various clips that you put in there of being able to hear people

in their own voice, being able to hear President Kennedy

144

referencing Rachel Carson talking and her work from Silent Spring.

145

It was well done.

146

And so one of the questions I had as I was listening to this, knowing all that goes into

editing and podcasting and all that, there are so many clips and I know you had to do so

147

much research for this.

148

So how did you handle digging into the rabbit holes to kind of pull back nuggets without

kind of getting lost in the abyss?

149

Because you covered so much and did it so well.

150

Thank you.

151

Thank you.

152

It was extremely difficult.

153

As you can imagine, once you get into this kind of wide ranging discussion and research,

it's very easy, as you've alluded to, very easy to kind of get off kilter and go down into

154

subject matter that, you know, may not matter to the overall story.

155

So it was discipline, just constantly reminding myself, okay, does this

156

connect to the story?

157

Does it answer the question why, who, what, where?

158

Does this move the environmental story along?

159

So answering those questions, constantly reminding myself and a lot of cutting along the

way.

160

It was heartbreaking to leave some things on the cutting room floor and to delete.

161

That's fair.

162

So one of the other things I really liked about the series was

163

You went far enough back to give a great historical foundation, but then you also went

through contemporary times to present day.

164

And so it's this idea of blending history and memory.

165

Because when you're talking about episodes one and two, and talking about various elements

that were clearly history and before the time I was born, to then getting up to the

166

creation of C-SPAN and Enron and all of those, I remember that stuff from when I was a

kid.

167

I didn't understand it as a child and seeing how it was connected was really, really

fascinating.

168

And even as an adult, I don't watch C-SPAN typically.

169

I also had never really thought about the impact of C-SPAN, but then kind of your

connection between the formation of C-SPAN, Newt Gingrich's desire to kind of leverage

170

that and kind of seeing how technology was going to impact communication.

171

thought that was just such a aha moment where I was like, oh my gosh, that was a wild

insight.

172

I was not expecting to be like, dang, C-SPAN.

173

That was a spoiler.

174

Sorry, it is a spoiler if you haven't listened to it yet, but that was an angle I was not

expecting.

175

Similarly to kind of the plot twist, as you called it, of realizing that Steve Bannon, the

dude who's in jail right now from all the Trump stuff,

176

was the guy who funded Biosphere too, think, or like, helped came in as like one of the

funders and was actually speaking eloquently about the impacts of climate change and why

177

we had to do this scientific studies.

178

things I was blown away by.

179

And so I loved how you were able to thread the needle to really make the various

connections of it.

180

And so I'm curious for you, what are some of the most surprising things that you learned

while researching the series, even if there are things that you had to leave on the

181

cutting room floor?

182

I think most of the stuff that was really surprising, I forced and made sure that I had to

get it in there.

183

I think the two biggest things really, there was a lot, but I'll say the two biggest

things was probably the influence that the oil industry, the fossil fuel industry had on

184

the Bush administration.

185

I had no idea at the time and I was, you know, a teenager.

186

was starting college, but

187

You know, it's not really on your radar at that age, but I had no idea the depth and some

of the things that happened behind the scenes that weren't really talked about as much.

188

then similarly with the Trump administration, there was a lot that happened there where

there was, you know, wiping scientific information off of websites and cutting it from

189

different agencies.

190

That kind of stuff kind of jumped out just because it wasn't talked about as much and

coming across that information was pretty surprising.

191

And of course, the Steve Bannon part, that was a curve ball.

192

I did not see it coming.

193

Yeah, totally.

194

Yeah, think from the...

195

One of the things that also struck me from the segment about kind of the impacts from the

Bush administration also, it was kind of after 9-11, yes, knowing that we were going, you

196

the war was about oil, but not realizing that before the war, Iraq oil reserves were

really not open to the rest of the world.

197

But then after the war it was, it was like, my gosh, like it's the, all of the evidence

that was just the very much so.

198

Yes, it was absolutely about the oil, even with all the various administration officials

and all that coming out being like, of course it was.

199

So that was also peaceful.

200

It's like, it's all intertwined and connected.

201

crazy things about that was the reports that they were actually looking at maps in advance

of 9-11.

202

When they were having their discussions about the energy policy amongst all the oil

companies, they had actually looked at a map of Iraq and making plans in advance, know, a

203

wish list of what could happen.

204

So it was all, you know, quite premeditated.

205

Yeah.

206

And I think that was something else that struck me throughout this entire series was that

so much of it was premeditated, but almost made to look like, oh, no, it's happening.

207

Oh, what a happy coincidence.

208

That's what, oh, what?

209

How did that happen?

210

And so I think sometimes I have the misconception that people just need more information

because they just don't know any better.

211

And really listening to this and seeing kind of the through line and the threads.

212

of how all of these things really are connected was something that was impactful.

213

And even though within the work that I do and the podcast that I have, I talk about how

everything is connected.

214

But I often think of it of looking backwards, where it's like, oh, this happened and that

happened and that caused that to happen, but almost as a cause and effect as opposed to,

215

this was premeditated.

216

And that's why that happened.

217

And this is why like all of these things are working together.

218

What really landed that for me was the segment where you were talking, kind of talking

about the impacts that, I think his name was Cooney, the not scientist who kept editing

219

the reports, the scientific reports to be like, oh, we're gonna just say that that might

happen or maybe that's a possibility.

220

It's like, sir, you are not a scientist.

221

Why are you editing content?

222

What?

223

And the impacts that he had and how he was enabled to frame scientific research to the

administration.

224

That was one of those moments where I was like, what is happening and where are the

adults?

225

And he came immediately from the fossil fuel industry and right back into it.

226

Right.

227

So he was like job security.

228

It's like, there was this big expose.

229

He had to resign his position in the administration and he's back kind of where he

started.

230

Right back into the industry that he was already helping all along.

231

And had direct communication during.

232

Right.

233

Getting, getting pats on the back.

234

Oh my gosh.

235

Yeah.

236

It was one of those things where like the more I was listening and also I'm assuming you

didn't have to do any sort of like freedom of information acts or anything like that.

237

All of this information is readily available.

238

Like on the Google.

239

That was, that was the shocking thing.

240

Well, not shocking, but impressive, I guess that there's so much information available to

us obviously with the internet and you just dive in and kind of

241

follow this and get all the information, all the actual video clips, people saying these

things themselves, it's all readily available.

242

It's just, you know, going out to get it and source it.

243

But back to your point about sort of the history, the funny thing, I always tell people

this, I hated history as a kid.

244

It was just not one of my subjects in high school.

245

But when I got to college, I had one teacher that

246

taught his course in a way that context matters.

247

And he talked about the various angles and forces that can change something and the

perspectives of different people, their motives, and how that impacts or impacted the

248

events throughout the course of history.

249

And that really resonated with me because I think you begin to understand and it clicks

more rather than a list of dates and events.

250

you can understand why someone did something and how it and then to your point that cause

and effect, but you understand the full scope of that.

251

Right.

252

And I think telling history and context also makes it much more relatable and reminds us

that the life that we are living is a future person's history.

253

And so there have been some times when, particularly when I've been talking to people in

preservation who are really good storytellers.

254

they'll be telling stories in a way where it just feels so salacious.

255

And I'm like, wait, the people that you're talking about have been dead like 200 years.

256

But I am like clutching my pearls and on the edge of my seat like, and then what happened?

257

What happens next?

258

And so it's very much, it's very humanizing.

259

So it's not just kind of thinking of these historical figures of like putting them on a

pedestal.

260

It's very much like, well actually he was, he did that because he was mad at, you know,

this person or he, you know,

261

that person scuffed his shoes or something like that.

262

It just makes it realize that the decisions that we're living today will have future

implications going forward.

263

It's just a reality show.

264

It really is.

265

When you get into it, history is so messy.

266

It's so much drama.

267

That's been one of the interesting things.

268

I'm so grateful to you for being able and spending the time to put things in context.

269

Thank you.

270

It's been quite a journey to...

271

to dig in and it was just surprising to go down these rabbit holes.

272

I had this kind of initial outline of what I was thinking and as I was digging in, it just

opened up so much more as I started to ask those questions.

273

There was just story after story that just kept popping up along the way.

274

Yeah.

275

Was astroturfing part of the original outline or was that something that kind of came out

of the research that you're doing as you're getting into it?

276

Not at all.

277

That was completely just part of the research.

278

And I honestly don't even really remember how I stumbled upon it.

279

I think it came about when I was digging into sort of the communication effort and somehow

an article came up on the astroturfing.

280

against the lead.

281

And then I started wondering, well, how big of a thing is AstroTurfing?

282

And all of these old videos and campaigns started came up and just kind of researching

those.

283

So it was just super interesting as I was going down, but completely an accident.

284

Good.

285

Well, that was definitely a happy accident because like learning more about it and like,

there's a term for this.

286

And then even like

287

the different ads that you saw.

288

I like, remember that ad.

289

my gosh, no, that too?

290

Then if you could have seen me driving in my car, the look I had on my face when you

uncovered the fact that, yeah, BP is the one that started the whole idea of a carbon

291

footprint so they could shift responsibility from the corporation to the individual.

292

I was like, no.

293

What?

294

That blew my mind.

295

It's so crazy.

296

when you look at it from sort of a aerial view of, I mean, the most accurate word is

manipulation that has happened over the last, I don't even know, 70 years of actual

297

manipulation.

298

But it's, yeah, it's just so shocking.

299

And that one caught me by surprise too.

300

Like I mentioned in the episode, I remember

301

going through my carbon footprint with friends and we were all comparing carbon footprints

to each other and shaming each other that had higher ones.

302

All to find out that this was a coordinated thing to shift the blame and make you think

that you're the bad person.

303

Right.

304

And I think that it's been leveraged in the industry to be able to at least give us a

measurement tool.

305

And so maybe it'll backfire on them because now we are actually being like, all right,

well, how do we act now?

306

How do we measure it?

307

And what about embodied carbon?

308

What about other ways that we can actually be mindful to bring these numbers down?

309

And so I think there was that moment of, they're trying to make it seem like it's just the

individual's fault and corporations are solvent or not involved at all.

310

And so that's definitely not the case.

311

But I do think, and I'm hopeful at least, that we're able as the industry to continue

using those metrics to be able to be like, all right, well, yeah, actually we do need to

312

be paying more attention to this.

313

but at the building level because buildings are such a big impact of how we are going to

deal with what comes next and how we even need to start thinking about how we're going to

314

design our buildings to handle what's coming next.

315

Yeah, definitely.

316

And in the last episode, I kind of go through, I mean, there's a almost infinite list of

solutions in various ways that we can approach this, but I go through a few different

317

options.

318

And I think the carbon footprint to some extent,

319

kind of goes to the idea of walkable communities and helping people lower their carbon

footprint by creating spaces where they don't have to take cars everywhere where they can

320

walk and mix use communities and kind of going back to the main street sort of vibe where

you're mixed in with housing and the commercial space to some extent where you don't have

321

to take a car everywhere.

322

Right, that would help a lot of different areas, particularly in rural America, but that's

also interesting to think through how Main Street started collapsing because of suburbs,

323

because of developments sprawling out, because automobiles, you know, gotta give people

cars, and people gotta live further away so they can buy our cars, and all that sort of

324

thing.

325

And even just kind of thinking of like Michelin star restaurants, Michelin tires, it's the

same company, and it's like it started because.

326

The tire company wanted to sell tires and so they needed to tell people, go try those

restaurants over there so your tires start to wear down so you need to buy new tires.

327

It's like those kinds of haven't heard that one.

328

Yes, legit.

329

It's like, all right, how do we get people to use their tires?

330

Go over there, go visit that great restaurant.

331

Interesting.

332

Yes, that's why it's the same.

333

It's wild.

334

I have to do another episode.

335

There we go.

336

So one of the things I was surprised by the series was the number of clips from

conservative radio that you had in the series showing both viewpoints.

337

Definitely the most conservative radio that I've listened to ever, probably.

338

But the clips that you had of even Rush Limbaugh talking about climate change.

339

And so I'd love to talk a bit more about kind of how you're able to have both sides

represented.

340

That was one of the things that was always in the back of my mind as I was doing this.

341

somewhat struggle with because I'm an independent, I'm willing to listen to conservatives,

but a lot of the stances on social issues is almost a non-starter in a lot of ways.

342

when I had those clips from conservatives, I didn't want to cut them early and have gotcha

moments.

343

So I tried to give longer clips where they were

344

voicing their opinion to get it all out there.

345

So you'll see that with Rush Limbaugh and Newt Gingrich, letting him voice his opinion and

his perspective on climate change.

346

So that was one thing that through this, was like, okay, I gotta make sure that I'm not

perceived as these, know, gotcha moments.

347

I'm just really trying to follow the story and.

348

and put forth the information that I'm coming across.

349

So it was was interesting to come across that stuff.

350

And and yeah, same for me.

351

A lot of it was like, wow, this is a long clip that I listened to for the first time.

352

Yes, there were were moments like that.

353

I'm like, oh, Rush Limbaugh, still talking.

354

All right.

355

All right.

356

I'm hanging there with you, Demetrius.

357

But OK, now.

358

Yeah, but it was interesting to see it there, to hear it rather and to just realize the

extent of which

359

The conversation has been in the media and even just things that I didn't realize like the

fact that Rush Limbaugh's show is syndicated for decades.

360

20, you know, it's like decades.

361

Yeah.

362

So it's just a good reminder of the length of time the conversation hasn't been going on.

363

Yeah.

364

But the other benefit of doing that is that

365

When you put these things juxtaposed with all of the context, you understand how

coordinated some of these things have been.

366

The financial incentives that people had, particularly starting from Rush Limbaugh,

there's a profit, there's an economy around it.

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And it's only gotten more and more, whether it's money or influence.

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And then with social media, all of that has just kind of ballooned and you see that now in

society.

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So being a contrarian pays off these days.

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And that all kind of started around that time.

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I could dive into some of the roots of it, but it really took off from Rush Limbaugh and

kind of ballooned to what we see today.

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Yeah.

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And even the of the sermon that you're talking about during the creation of Fox News and

all that and the way that they made sure to mix in politics with the news and kind of

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present them together.

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I hadn't even realized that that was a thing really in the sense where it's like, that's

just, that's just news.

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That's how, that's how our media is.

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But no, it wasn't always that way.

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So that was a super great reminder of the fact that the way our news media, the way our

media and news is now is not how it always was.

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It was very intentionally created.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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Exactly.

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And just really caught on in the nineties and became.

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got a whole new life of its own.

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Right.

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And so I guess as you were, I guess, kind of wrapping up the series for the research that

you wanted to do for now, were there any things that you didn't get into in the last

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episode that you want to add on now or things that you're hopeful for the future and all

that good stuff?

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I think I covered at least everything in this particular story of the environment.

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This one is really

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kind of through the lens of the fossil fuel industry as it's one of the biggest emitters

of carbon and contributors to climate change.

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I've considered coming back with additional seasons at some point, because there's still

plastic that there's a conversation about and a couple other areas in regards to the

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environment that I think would fit nicely into this series.

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But I think at least for now, this tells this full story and I'm pretty happy with it.

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I don't think I left really much on the table as far as that I would want to tell in this

story.

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But to the question of how I feel about the future, I kind of waffle back and forth on

whether it's a good one or a bad one.

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There's always bad things in the news and setbacks.

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think we've reached a point where there's very few people that can say that climate change

is not real anymore.

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And I think a lot of people are being exposed and will continue to be exposed.

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And the public will see that and start to shift how they select leaders and engagement

from the public, I believe, will increase over time.

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we're kind of going through this weird evolution of society right now that we're going

through this growing pain, uh, period right now where we're struggling with social media

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and this division amongst society.

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But I think once we get past that, there is brighter days on the other side.

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And I think that will make up for a good future.

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Uh, once we get past this, um, and I think the financial side is also

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going to help fuel that because like I touched on, you have insurance companies that are

pulling out their businesses that are at risk because of climate change.

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And I think that pressure, that financial pressure is also going to start to fuel at a

turning point.

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So all of those things, think, lead to a brighter future, but we still got a little bit of

mud to get through.

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Yeah, that's fair.

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I think that that has been something that's been interesting to see play out in the

industry.

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how the money piece of it, now the financiers, the insurance folks are actually focusing

on the realities of climate change, the realities of not wanting to insure things that are

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going to be in places where, the sea level's rising.

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We're not insuring that.

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We're not insuring certain things.

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That's been interesting to see how it plays out.

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And then even having to encounter and deal with kind of scope one, two, and three

emissions as a profession so that...

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So basically you can prove that you are leading to decarbonization.

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Those kinds of metrics I think are what's gonna push us forward as opposed to the, well

no, we have to pretend like nothing's wrong because oil and gas need more money.

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No.

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So I'm with you on that.

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I'm definitely optimistic, but I definitely think we're not out of it yet.

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There's still plenty of work to do.

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And as your series has shown and taught us that there are plenty of ways to be

intentional.

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and premeditative on the good things.

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Yeah, that was one thing with the series that I found a lot of hope in is along the way,

there are some great stories, there are great moments where we came up with innovative

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solutions to address the problem along the way.

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There were people that pushed for different designs, different policies, there was

bipartisanship that came up with great ideas.

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So I think

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along the way.

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It's not all doom and gloom in this series.

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There's some great stories of hope along the way.

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I think, you know, take that and kind of bring it forward.

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think it's positive moving forward.

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Yeah, agreed.

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Just as people can be forces for evil, there's plenty of us who can be forces for good as

well.

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The way things will be in the future are not how they have been in the past, or they don't

have to be how they have been in the past.

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So yeah, story's not done yet.

438

Well, any other questions or anything else you want to cover before we wrap up?

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Just for for those that are listening, this is an incredible story about our relationship

with the environment.

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As we've discussed, it's particularly highlighting climate change and the the forces, both

shadowy and otherwise, that have an influence on our perception about climate change.

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So.

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I really hope that people will check it out and share it as much as possible.

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The goal was just to get this full story out there and hope that no matter which

perspective you have about the subject matter, just listen and get all of the information

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that I present and hopefully change your mind if you don't think climate change is a

thing, but otherwise just get the information out there for people to to kind of retain

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and

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and think about.

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Well, thank you so much for having me on.

448

I'm excited.

449

I'm just excited to have experienced the series and I'm glad that we were able to recap

it.

450

Yes.

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Thank you so much, Nikita, for doing that.

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Thank you again to Nikita Reed for joining me on this special episode.

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Again, Nikita is the host of Tangible Remnants.

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You can find a link to her incredible show in the show notes or just search Tangible

Remnants wherever you get your podcasts.

455

Also, if you haven't done so already, make sure you subscribe or stay subscribed to the

Spaces podcast feed.

456

I'll be back with more insightful conversations in a couple of weeks.

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And a huge thank you to you.

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listening to Going Green.

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If this series resonates with you, I hope you will take a moment to share the series with

one person.

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I'm truly hopeful that this series will illuminate the situation we're in and inspire more

meaningful conversations about the future we're all building together.

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If you're extra inspired, I've dropped a link in the show notes to find your U.S.

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representative.

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I encourage you to voice your concerns about the environment.

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and anything you've heard during a series.

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Remember, saving our planet is now a communications challenge.

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We know what to do, we just need the will.